Naples Florida Real Estate: "I Can't Disclose That" Is Not Helping You Or Your Seller.

I don't give out specifics, but I also don't say "you know I can't tell you that."  I think there is a way to let buyers know you are negotiable without getting too specific.

I like the idea of getting in writing what I can say. I guess that can also be in the form  of an email.  Surely, sellers know it's part game and part business.  Thanks for sharing, Shannon!

Melina,  I don't think you have to be too specific, the guy I talked about in my post was just very generous with his information.  Thanks for commenting! :)

Natalie,  You're right, it is a game and if we talk to our customers about all the ways we can win, well, it's hard to lose!  Thanks for contributing! :)

Shannon, I ALWAYS encourage a buyer's agent to put it in writing and I will present in the most positive light.  I can't tell you the bottom line, but my seller has said to tell you that we are motivated.  I think more listing agents do a disservice by "over protecting" their sellers right out of a deal!!

I hope that the agent who said:

Hey, I'm more motivated than my partner but I suspect if the offer looked something like (an exact number less than the asking price) then we can probably get it to fly.  I don't think he'll let anything lower than that go though so I hope that helps...do you have any other questions?  Nope, cool well I hope you sell mine and if there's anything I can do don't hesitate to call me.

...had permission to do so! If not, yikes!

In a similar situation, I recently got a call from an agent who wanted to know my seller's bottom line. Uh, hello...why would I tell him my seller's bottom line? How would that be in the best interest of my seller? If I said "$1" maybe the buyer was willing to pay "$2"? Who knows? He said his buyer didn't want to write an offer unless he could get a "deal" on the property. Just what is a "deal" anyway (different meaning for different people). I told him that he should do some research and provide his buyer with the appropriate comparable sales, and then encouraged him to submit an offer...and that all offers will be considered by the seller!

I agree that we should work together and give appropriate information...but only the information that the seller is willing to disclose. The seller needs to be aware that if they give their bottom line...they may very well have given away hundreds or thousands of dollars because that buyer may have been prepared and willing to pay more...and they just gave away the farm. 

Audrey...thank you for commenting...your point was my point thanks for adding to it.

Kelly,  You're right BUT...in many cases highest price vs. no deal at all is kind of where I'm going with this.  Perhaps I could have used another examples in my post to illustrate that we don't need to know the exact bottom line (which is nice but never expected) but something other than the obvious, (provided we have permission) seems to be getting the best results. As for the guy who said, I'm more motivated than my partner...he is also one of the seller's...he gave himself permission to say that...he's talking about himself.

I think it's important to reiterate PERMISSION FROM SELLER'S IS THE KEY.  But if you know you're going to be asked the question, why don't you strategically game plan with the seller for a great, "MEATY" response so you can help your seller catapult into first offer position. If only half the homes on the market in that neighborhood are going to sell this year and your seller wants to be one of them...the most money is not the objective...getting gone is.

Oh, I missed that part about him being one of the sellers...that's different! :)

You can see how the wrong answer though could hurt rather than help the seller, though, right?

I just wonder what ever happened to the idea of the buyer making an offer on a property they are interested in and seeing where it will go in negotiations? Are they just the low-ballers in your opinion, or investor types, or "real" buyers who want to buy a home they love and plan to live in? Just curious.

Thanks, sweetie!

I've been telling my sellers to think about what I've shown them as far as comparables and then to come up with their bottom line at the time of the listing. I do not want them to reveal this number to me. I know there motivation for selling, but I am not privy to that number. When I get asked about the motivation or price I can honestly say I am not sure how negotiable the price is and that it would be best to put the offer in writing so I can present it in its entirety, since we all know price isn't the only deciding factor in a sale.

Shannon, I enjoyed this post and all of the comments too.  Great things to keep in mind, and great feedback.

SHANNON - This is interesting because we have all been well trained to obey the law (although I see the law broken on a regular basis).  I like the idea of getting something in writing with the seller to give better answers.  While I wouldn't necessarily recommend giving a dollar figure out, being able to give more than the standard "no comment" approach would be helpful.  Truthfully, I think that some of the laws that are designed to "protect" sellers actually end up hurting them in the long run.

Shannon - good post. I have had similar questions - how motivated is the seller, etc. The listing agents job is to represent the seller.

My job as a listing agent is to get the most for my sellers and by telling a buyer that they can offer less or my clients are willing to accept less or willing to negotiate would be doing them a very large mis-service. I wrote a post about a listing agent that was the opposite of this the other day and I think if you asked me this question, I would ask you. How much can your buyers afford, can they offer more than asking price? How much down payment do they have? Can they pay their own closing costs?

You job is to do the best for your clients, but please don't get mad at a listing agent for doing the best for their client.

Shannon- I think the word "motivated" can have issues for the client.....there was a study , or something, and they concluded that when people hear the word motivated, they think desperate, and it was proven that the seller would get a lower price consistently with that term.  You have a good point, but so do the listing agents :)

TODD:  I delightfully disagree here because I doubt seriously your primary job as a listing agent is always to get the highest price and this post was written specifically for agents who think like that.  Sometimes our job is to get the property gone and by thinking our job is to secure the highest price possible can sometime prevent the house from selling within a reasonable time.  It's also possible to cut off amicable negotiations with buyers or buyer's agents who are thoroughly ready, willing and able to sell/represent. 

But to meet you back in the middle, sometimes it ISall about price.  At those times it's ok to offer that information even before the buyer's agents ask....Hey Todd, I just want to give you a heads up...my Seller is barely if at all going to move on his price...I don't want to disappoint you or your customer by not telling you that in advance. 

This is an example of an amicable hint of negotiation.  By recanting with "how much can your buyer afford" is only going to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the guy who's interested in helping you sell your listing.  Doing that too many times can assure you that guy will stop showing your listings just as I have stopped showing a very small handful of agents in my market.  Hey, there's enough listing inventory for me to do that right now.  With any luck they'll starve to death before the inventory shrinks and then I don't ever have to show their stuff again.  Sounds harsh doesn't it?

By discussing this with your client up front, gives you the legal right and authority to represent them THE WAY THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU PERMISSION TO REPRESENT THEM. 

By assuming agents and buyers will stop asking these silly questions is unrealistic.

Giving agents and buyers black eyes with snotty responses is not at all representing your clients best interest...should we be following the letter of the law.

Keeping our emotions out of the deal by being prepared to respond intelligently is also advisable.

Best Regards :)

KATHY:  I agree with you...that's why if you spend time with your seller discussing this strategy, you hopefully you can come up with a response that prevents drama.  I know it works for me and it works for several of the more successful agents in my market.  If the determination is to respond with "fire sale"...well ya kinda get what you ask for...if the determination is to respond with...I doubt there's hardly any room at all...hey you still get what you ask for.  You get "what the real price is" which is usually what buyer's agents are looking for before throwing a bunch of dead paper into the wind. 

I'm not one to even ask. What a seller wouldn't accept yesterday, they may accept today as priorities and motivation changes.

I always pull up comps before writing an offer and if my buyer asks me about bottom dollar, the above is exactly what I tell them. I ask them to think about what the value of the property would be to them and submit an offer. You never know what'll happen until then.

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from making an offer just because they don't think it'll fly. As I said, you never know what will happen in negotiations. The seller could decide to take less or the buyer may decide it would be worth more to them. And I believe it to be a dis-service to the seller also, even though they are not my client.

When other agents ask me about my seller's bottom dollar, I tell them the same unless I've been instructed to do otherwise. 

Lissa:  I have found that by asking prevents alot of unnecessary paperwork from flying and alot more deals getting accepted.  Comps in a market where properties are depreciating or appreciating for that matter are not nearly as valuable as knowing what the seller wants because in my market, some buyers are willing to pay more than market value just as some sellers are willing to go under market value to get their properties sold. 

For the buyer to know where the seller stands doesn't mean they always accept the information and some choose to offer what they want to offer anyway.  Here's an example:

Buyers says the want to make an offer and want to know what would be intelligent...seller's agent says, "Shannon, if they want the furniture included they will probably have to go full price or very close to...I relay the info...buyer makes offer for 30k less than full price to include furniture...seller comes down 10k with furniture and includes that's it...buyer asks for 20k less with furniture..I reiterated that was seller's final counter...deal doesn't go through and sells the next day full price with furniture. 

In this particular case seller got what they wanted...buyer didn't but also didn't fully realize how well the market was doing in this particular area.  NOW the buyer is fully aware knows what it will take to strike again and will be fully prepared to cut a deal.  Ideally it would've been better had the taken the advice but we're still going to get it done for them. 

I think the other thing we make the mistake of doing is attempting to deal with "absolutes".  "Inside scoop" does not mean "bottom dollar".  It means...what's going on in your seller's mind. 

Another thing to consider...although there is a certain comittment that goes into preparing a written offer for a buyer same rings true for a seller who receives one...sometimes the process changes their final decisions so in that regard your right.  But it all goes both ways...how many seller's get furious with us for presenting super low offers.  In many cases it's a waste of their time and sometimes the listing agent's credibility is on the line when it continues to happen.   When that extra communication is there...that listing agent is covered and credibility remains intact.  

Shannon, I'm not saying you're wrong, and please don't be offended by my comments. We all do things differently based upon our opinion of what we believe is right, the laws that govern us, and our experience with similar situations. That is what makes us each unique and differentiates us.

As you pointed out in the story of the negotiations with furniture, there is more to consider than just the price. I am a firm believer that negotiations are always possible, regardless of what we think we may know about our client. I've never had an issue with a seller getting furious at me because of a low ball offer, but I believe it's all a matter of presentation. If they get them repeatedly, maybe they need to re-evaluate the asking price.

I do communicate with my sellers through out the entire process, but just because I know what they have told me the bottom dollar is or that they are in a huge time crunch, does not mean I'm going to shoot them in the foot by disclosing it. I have never been given permission to tell another client or buyer's agent that it is okay to ask for less, only that the seller is open to negotiation.

It is my opinion that that's what counter offers are for. I understand that it is time consuming, but I get paid to work for my client and the paperwork is an included task in my job description.

Shannon,

As a listing agent I typically don't want to get into verbal negotiations.  First and foremost I don't want to get into a he said/she said argument with another agent.  Just because I am sure my seller will drop their price another $10K on Monday often doesn't mean they will do that on Tuesday.  Lets face it sellers are fickle sometimes.  So yes, I always prefer to have a buyers agent send me something in writing and then we can move forward from there.  Now I will admit that I have told some buyers agents that I didn't think there was anyway my client would accept a certain offer, but to send it through anyway.  I am always happy to let my clients see all offers.  Sometimes that will actually get them thinking about their market position.   I honestly think if listing agents would get their clients to position their properties in the market correctly from the beginning we would not have to worry about this so much.  

 

LISSA: I'm not at all offended by your comments.  I believe negotiations are always possible as well unless we prevent them from the beginning with rigid and lazy, "I can't tell you that" type of initial responses sometimes delivered by agents who did not put together a sales strategy...obviously you're not one of them so...anyway...as far as the low offer thing is concerned.  I typically here complaints about this from sellers who have fired their previous listing agent...what a shame. 

As far as the bottom dollar is concerned...that specifically was not what this post was about but a point that keeps coming up which makes me think that I did a poor job getting my message across.  I'm contimplating adding to the original message as I doubt people will read all of the commenting...

People want to know what the seller is thinking.  Not necessarily bottom line...sometimes they just want to know if the seller's just testing the market or do they have a definate plan as to what they want to do if they sell.  I don't know how it is in your market but you would be amazed at how many listings are on the market here that are owned by people who honestly don't really care if they sell it or not.  In many cases they don't occupy the properties so having it listed doesn't affect them. 

So let's use this scenerio as an illustration: 

Question:  Hey, what's going on with the sellers?

After showing House A:  My answer:  (after discussions with my seller, I am permitted and say the following) The seller's purchased a lot and are building a home.  They can't start building until they sell this one and they are nearly completed with their plans and excited to get started.  They understand the market and welcome offers but when you research comps, you'll see they are already the best priced (by far) in the area. The sellers know this too but realize they can't go forward with their plan until they sell this one.  Don't be afraid to put something in writing and you will receive at minimum an intelligent response.

After showing house B:  We'll use Todd's comments as example:  How much can your buyers afford, can they offer more than asking price? How much down payment do they have? Can they pay their own closing costs?

You get in your car with your buyers and they say, we like both of them, which one should we take a stab at first? 

Provided that (all othe variables are the same) which house do you tell them to start with?

ROGER:  I completely agree...wouldn't it be neat if the list price was really the price that would cause it to sell and perhaps the only price...sure takes the guess work out of it...but...I doubt that will ever be the case.

I don't think it's wise to get into verbal negotiations without your client ever even with permission...this really isn't what it's about...it about a tip off.  A basketball game isn't won by the tip off but it is what gets the ball rolling in the right direction.

Shannon- I just wrote an offer yesterday.....I tell other agents, and clients if their offer is too low, or other terms.  I try to do all the negotiating back and forth before the offer is written.  I have worked with some great agents and then with some that just want to do their own thing anyway, regardless of what the Seller wants....:)  I do not say "That is too low"  I just say I can't discuss certain things, but I do not think the Seller would accept those terms."  Anyway, it works for my clients, and me :)  I think you have a very good point in your thinking.

Your answer on House A is perfect! I love it. Unfortunately in my area right now, everybody wants to low-ball and the agent that's calling to ask gets snippy if you don't give them exactly what they want to hear. I'm sure that's because their client gets irritated if they don't get a direct answer, but the agent should be able to understand the rationale behind an answer such as the one you wrote above or that I give. I would never leave it at "I can't give you that information". It's all about communication and I agree that an answer like that may be detrimental to the seller.

If I received that type of answer however, I think I would simply tell my buyer what I stated earlier about negotiations. I would not want to make the other agent look incompetent or the seller look difficult. I also wouldn't want my buyer to make a decision based on which property would be a better deal. In a case such as this, I think it best to show them both again and let the buyer sleep on it. Especially if they don't feel a real connection to either property.

KATHY:  That is awesome....I can see why it works for you...you're very amicable and credible when you speak...or at least type. Who wouldn't want to do a deal with you?  :)

Shannon- I am exactly the same in person as I am here...oh except I now have a lisp from a tooth shifting LOL :)  Seriously though.....it sure makes life easier all the way around to deal this way, for everyone concerned, in my opinion :)

**you stated to Roger about wouldn't it be nice if the list price was the real price.  that  comment is close to my heart.  I had a listing that we worked hard on everything to come up with the price....fair to all concerned.  I was shocked that other Agents continually said "oh my client never pays list"....what????  So I checked and sure enough other Agents made the Listing higher....now that went against how I sell my land (I sell mostly land) but hey if this is how the game is played, OK I'll raise the price so my clients get the same price we had listed for.....

Shock shock...it sold, we got what we wanted, and the other people were happy.  Still doesn't make any sense to me, but hey what do I know :)  I like having a good price, and that's it :)